Sid: Now my guest on the telephone is Art Thomas. I love all the guests that I have but I just saw your DVD and your new book, and you had something happen in your teaching that I have never seen before. I’m wondering if you’re getting other reports like this. People that have never moved in miracles look at your video and they say “Hey that’s easy I can do that!” And people that have had a few their faith gets stretched are you getting feed back because that’s the reaction I had?
Art: Oh yeah it’s happening all the time I think the craziest story we had a gentleman wrote to me he said “I took your movies into a maximum security prison showed it to about 65 inmates and they started praying for each other and one guy took out his earring aids was completely healed and his ears opened up and they even confirmed it in the infirmary. So yeah we’re hearing about people who are brand new Christians stepping up in Jesus name and seeing results right away.
Sid: And Art since we haven’t put the cameras up we’re going to put the them up shortly they have no idea of your age how old are you?
Art: I’m 30.
Sid: Okay as I said when you told me the first time you were 30 that’s a great age that’s when Jesus got started but you’ve done more than got started you just got back from Uganda, what happened?
Art: Oh we had lots of ministry out in the villages; we even went to an island on Lake Victoria it was about 40 minutes off shore. And 5 different villages we saw 100% results of every single person who came for healing or who wanted healing was healed. And in pretty much every one of these villages except for one that was a Muslim village and I can tell that story too but pretty much all of them. I would have an altar call for salvation and then we would take one of the youngest kids who got saved and have them demonstrate to the church how to minister healing and people would get healed instantly. The difference was this Muslim village where we did an altar call and no one responded for obvious reasons. Then I said “Then let’s just show you how good Jesus is.” We ministered healing to a handful of people and I think there was 6 or 7 healings there. And then we did an altar call again and we had 6 or 7 salvations. So yeah we saw Jesus move in pretty powerful ways.
Sid: Now I have to tell you this I have never been at a meeting where 100% of the people were healed, but had I been at a meeting where100% were healed I wouldn’t had been as laid back as you were just now.
Art: (Laughing)
Sid: I mean because you do realize that 99.9% of those that are believers that are listening to us have never even witnessed this before. I mean this is outrageous according to today’s version of religion of Christianity of course it is normal according to the Bible, I kind of like the normal. Now I understand that you were raised in a Pentecostal church you saw a few miracles but you really didn’t venture out into miracles yourself until about 2009. But you had a few experiences that I really want to find out about for instance tell me about the angelic encounter that you had that completely shifted your thinking.
Art: I was helping plant a church in Fowlerville, Michigan and we had a prayer meeting and while I was there just praying for the community, and really seeking miracles because I want to see the supernatural happen in my ministry I was begging God for it. And all of a sudden this angel appeared and you know it was kind of new to me I didn’t have many experiences like that but when that happened I said “What are you here for?”
Sid: Excuse me I have to question you on this because I have seen angels, I actually talked with one once but I didn’t know it was an angel until it disappeared, however what did this angel look like to you?
Art: Yeah I mean it was seeing with my spiritual eyes and so I just saw this really tall person who my physical eyes it was…I thought I was seeing my physical eyes but I knew I wasn’t because it’s probably the best way to describe it. And that angel said “The only thing necessary for a life of miracles is the presence of God so stop seeking miracles and start seeking His presence.” And that was revolutionary for me it just shifted my whole way of thinking and my whole prayer life in terms of pursing this.
Sid: Okay that was what year?
Art: Probably about 2003.
Sid: Okay now that…but did miracles start right away.
Art: Ah…I should say yes miracles did, healing miracles no. You know I saw clouds part at a camp I was helping to staff for kids that were in the foster care system. We saw a storm that was as far across the horizon as you could see come at us and as I spoke to that in Jesus name again this was another one of those rare times I saw an angel. Massive angel rose up spread its wings out and I physically watched as the clouds parted in 2 directions; radioed the other staff and said “We’re going to have the camp fire tonight.” And sure enough some people saw the clouds parting, they saw everything that happened and we had a camp fire no rain (Laughing).
Sid: Well you told me about a heavenly vision that you had in 2003, and when you share this I want everyone to listen because as far as I’m concerned that is as profound as the last statement you made as “Don’t seek the miracles, seek the presence of God.” I mean I could camp there for awhile but tell me about that heavenly vision you had.
Art: Yeah I was in a prayer meeting with just some other friends of mine it was a guy’s Bible Study. And while we were praying I had what I really could only describe is a trance, I know that it’s Biblical it happened to Peter so I just was not there even though I was there. And it was very real almost drea0mlike but still real and I was walking in this forest and through the trees I could see these big mountains and everything, it was just very really vivid and bright. And even though there was a thick canopy of foliage everything was bright and alive and I realized I was walking next to Jesus. And He took me over to this tree right down by the base of it and pealed back the grass as though it was maybe freshly sod. Ran his fingers through the soil and said “You see everything in My Father’s Kingdom is full of life.” And I said “What do you mean like it’s alive like the dirt is alive like the dirt is alive?” And He said “No, I didn’t say that it was alive I said it’s full of life; everything in My Father’s Kingdom is full of life and as a citizen of this Kingdom you too are a life bringer that is full of life.” And that’s when it ended and I wasn’t even sure whether or not I should share it I just wrote everything down. And then my friend that was sitting on the couch across the living-room said “I just had the weirdest vision I was on the top of this mountain looking down at a forest like I’d never seen and everything was bright and alive and I felt the presence of God all around me.” And I realized that we were in the same place I was looking through the trees at mountains and he was looking down from the mountain at the trees and that was kind of my confirmation I could share it. That night we put into action we went to a restaurant and it was a 24 hour restaurant we were there till 1:00 in the morning sharing the gospel with a guy who got saved and it was spectacular (Laughing).
Sid: Tell me in a practical way how this revelation, everything in My Father’s Kingdom is full of life. Let’s suppose you’re praying for someone with cancer what does that knowledge how does that knowledge affect the way that you’re praying?
Art: Yeah I actually at the moment didn’t realize that there was a biblical base for this. And that’s really what’s affected me most is that in John 5 I think that it’s around verse 19 Jesus said “Everything the Father does the Son does.” It says “The Son can do nothing by Himself He only does what He sees the Father doing.” And I realized that that’s true of me too but His next verse says “That the Father gives life and raises the dead even so the Son gives life to whomever He chooses.” And that challenged me because I realized many times people aren’t getting healed because of whatever because a son not the Son but a son of God I’m not choosing to minister to people. And I realized that Jesus gave life to whomever He chose and that challenged me. And so in a practical way I realized I carry life, I carry the Holy Spirit in me every where I go everything I do. He’s in me, He’s through Me He wants to get out and so I just needed to choose to go to people and choose to love them in Jesus name. And as a result we start to see the life of God flow into people and He’s more eager to do it than we are (Laughing).
Sid: Well you know some of the things that really excited me when I was watching your video is you had a bunch of nonbelievers there in one of the scenes, and you have what something like 30 seasoned Holy Spirit ministers teaching on this video but more than teaching demonstrating. Which to me that’s the Jesus model anyway; there was one fellow he said to these nonbelievers “Just hold your hands out you’ll feel the presence of God.” And the presence of God came on all of these nonbelievers. But you know Art what happened there is what’s happening with our discussion right now the presence of God is all over the studio do you realize that?
Art: Oh He’s everywhere I like to…
Sid: I know He’s everywhere but now I’m telling you that while I’m interviewing you His presence is very high!
Art: Yeah I tell people when I go to meetings “I know the Holy Spirit’s going to show up simply because I showed up, that’s not an arrogant statement it’s because I’m confident that He’s with me all of the time and that He’s longing to jump out and just minister to people.
Sid: There was one thing that happened to you someone that I’ve interviewed his name is Todd White he was speaking and got you upset what did he say?
Art: (Laughing) yeah I had just had someone die of cancer and at this point I had never seen healing ministry work with my own eyes other than being healed myself.
Sid: Had you prayed for many people that were not healed?
Art: Oh easily 100s.
Sid: Hundreds?
Art: So here…
Sid: Well guess what maybe because I’m Jewish I prayed for 1000’s and they weren’t healed.
Art: (Laughing)
Sid: And I also had someone die on me so it’s only being tenacious that I kept it up but go ahead.
Art: Yeah that stirred me up to really seek God it was kind of like the breaking point for me this has to work I’ve got to find out why it works for others and not for me. And I was watching some YouTube videos found Todd White and he said “You know Mark 16 says “These signs accompany those who believe.” So that means that if these signs don’t accompany you there must be something up with your belief.
Sid: Now go back to Todd White you have to go back to Todd White he said something that upset you.
Art: Yeah yeah he said he said that “Mark 16 says ‘Th4ese signs will accompany those that believe.’ And that means that if these signs don’t accompany you there must be something up with your belief.”
Sid: Wait now that is not politically correct, I mean Art you don’t tell people they don’t have faith they’ll crucify you!
Art: (Laughing) Yeah and it bothered me because here I was a Youth Pastor I had credentials; I’m supposed to know everything and do everything right and he’s telling me something’s up with my belief. And I decided I could either sit around and be mad about it or I could humble myself and seek out what is wrong with my belief that these other guys have right. And it doesn’t mean that my belief is perfect now; it doesn’t mean you know people don’t get healed because your theology is perfect people get healed because of Jesus paid the price. And I find out that that was the common element between all of these people. You know I studied everything from John G. Lakes, Smith Wigglesworth and turn of the century contemporaries like Todd White or Bill Johnson or some of these others. And what I found is that each of these guys was convinced that it was always God’s will to heal and that Jesus had paid for it with His blood. And when I made that shift in my thinking and even I preached it in my Youth Group before I had ever done anything with it and then that’s when we started seeing the miracles break loose.
Sid: But you also did one other thing you took 3 months to do nothing but study healing.
Art: That’s right.
Sid: And so you put that foundation in and from what I understand the miracles still didn’t start even after that study even after all of these things they didn’t start really until about 2009.
Art: Yeah it was spring of 2009 when that lady in my church passed away, 3 months of study and then I stood up in August of 2009 and preached to my Youth Group God wants to heal He wants to use you to do it even though I’d never done it before. And at the end of that service…
Sid: But how did you do that after a woman dying of cancer and you’re not seeing much going on your seeing supernatural things but you’re not seeing much healing going on. How did you have I’ll use a Hebrew word the chutzpah the nerve to do that?
Art: Yeah you know one of the things I learned in that 3 month journey was I cannot base my theology and expectation off of disappointment. I have to base it off of the word of God and especially the life and ministry of Jesus. And what you can find is that there are 9 different passages throughout the gospels and the Book of Acts that say Jesus healed every single person who came to Him. There was no exception, there was nobody said “I’m sorry My Father’s building character in you you’ll have to stay leper a while longer.” He never turned anybody away saying “No not yet or you know talk to me the next time I pass through your village.” It was now is the day of salvation and that Greek word for salvation is Sotaria which means both the salvation we think of and it can also be translated as help. And we know that there’s something He wants body, soul and spirit same thing the Greek word for saved Sozo the same thing. The Hebrew word Rapha the same thing this sometimes translated as forgiveness, sometimes it’s healing, mostly it’s healing but yeah God is after our wholeness. And when I saw that I said “My experience is irrelevant Jesus is true.”
Sid: Now you talked about you just got back from Uganda how many what was it 5 villages everyone was healed? Your faith has to be sky high. Can I get you in one of these segments to pray for healing?
Art: Absolutely.
Sid: But let’s talk about your DVD “Paid in Full” and your book 40 day “Paid in Full Healing Ministry Activation Manual.” You know I’ve been healing now for more years than you’ve been alive but it charged my faith. Sometimes I understand people play this video for an entire church what happens?
Art: Yeah we play it, we have churches play it and then we get together and then start ministering to each other right at the end. I just maybe 3 weeks ago received another report and they said that the pastor stood up and said “You know we’ve got this person here that’s got this leg problem that’s been going on for I don’t know how long who’s got the faith to do it?” And some guy ran up ran up laid hands on her and they were healed and they just had healings breakout a whole bunch of them, I wish I could remember them all to recount them.
Sid: You know I want to make something clear you’re not talking for professional clergy you’re saying that the average person that goes to church as a part of the audience I hate to say it but that’s the way it is can now become a participant. And is this true for everyone? For instance, I used to years ago there was a man by the name of Kenneth Hagen and he had amazing gifts of the Spirit and I remember on time this was before I understood healing and I remember saying “He’s got a gift, how can he try and teach a gift he just has a gift of healing not everyone can be like a Kenneth Hagen or the Benny Hinns or the Oral Roberts. But you’re telling me that every believer can do what you do is that what you’re telling me?
Art: Absolutely, absolutely there is a passage in Luke 6 where it says the “Crowds were all trying to touch Jesus because power was coming from Him and healing them all.” And I realized there and in multiple other places everyone who touched Jesus’ body or just the hem of His garment were completely healed. And I realized I asked churches pretty regularly “Where is Jesus’ body now?” Well physically He’s seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven but practically He’s right here because we are the body of Christ. And so I just say “You know you can be the pinky toe of Jesus and heal somebody it doesn’t matter what you are all you have to do is touch Jesus.” And so if we will represent Him well to each other we’re going to see results.
Sid: Well let me make a promise on your DVD and let me make a promise on your book because it’s short readings that covers every possible area that could cause your faith to be weak. And this…here’s the promise that I’m going to make, I believe that if you watch the video, I believe that if you read the book, and I believe if you follow the activation principals for praying for people your going to start seeing the same type of results that Art Thomas has. Would you agree with that?
Art: Absolutely it’s not even about the book it’s about Jesus but that’s what our goal is to what He’s already proven to be truth throughout the centuries.
Sid: Well how about somebody that’s been in church for the last 25 years they’ve seen a few miracles at their church. They’ve never seen a miracle when they’ve prayed they’re basically in unbelief but they just don’t know it would it help them?
Art: Oh yeah that was basically my story when I got started (Chuckling).
Sid: Alright what about someone that is desperate for a miracle for themselves? What about if they just took the book just for themselves just for themselves what do you think would happen?
Art: Oh yeah anytime we discover that God wants us whole it’s going to change the way that we are seeking Him for even our own healing. In fact we’ve had many testimonies of people that just watching the movie getting healed while they were watching. A good friend of our family actually he just celebrated his 70th Birthday a few months ago and in August a little over 6 months prior to this recording he was diagnosed previously with prostate cancer in August he was given 3 months to live. And he saw our film about a month and a half into that while watching in the middle of the film the Holy Spirit spoke to him and said “Don’t worry about the cancer go live your life.” And so 2 days later he saw his doctor the doctor ran the scans of PSA count was down and the doctor said the exact same words. “Don’t worry about the cancer go live your life.” And that man was healed of cancer so he had his 70th Birthday he’s still kicking today.
Sid: Now when someone finishes the activation manual the “Forty Day Paid-In-Full Activation Manual” they will probably have prayed for and seen more miracles than they’ve ever seen in their life just by them praying is that correct?
Art: Absolutely and again like anybody who just steps out and realizes that this is an opportunity they can do this.
Sid: But there’s a confidence factor you know there’s a confidence factor in reading the word, but to me seeing the video people that have never prayed for anyone before praying for someone and they get healed right before your eyes. And one after another after another after another and the best ministers around teaching in between but you have actually people that have never prayed for people before on the video.
Art: Oh yeah we do a lot of that too (Laughing).
Sid: Okay look we’re going to have to take a break but I need I need you to be activated. Do you know why I do because mental apologetics is only good after you have the non-believers undivided attention, but the way you get the non-believers undivided attention is a miracle. So if you’re trying to convince someone intellectually without the miraculous it’s like you’re in a fight with a champion fighter and you have both arms tied behind your back. It’s an unfair contest let’s have a fair contest I want everyone listening to me to start operating in miracles.
