Sid: Now if this isn’t red hot I don’t know what is, I’ve got Dr. Michael Brown’s latest book it’s called “Revolution in the Church” subtitled “Challenging the Religious System with a Call for Radical Change.” Now Mike you know this word but Mishpochah may not it called “Chutzpa” its called nerve. Now Dr. Michael Brown is my guest by long distance I’m speaking to him in Pensacola, Florida he’s President of Fire School of Ministry located in Pensacola, Florida and New York, and shortly the Pensacola Branch will move to Charlotte, North Carolina. You must be getting a lot of flack on a book like this by the establishment Mike.
Michael: You know the thing that’s really surprised me Sid is that in a lot of cases and actually most cases the responses that I’m getting even from people that you would think are entrenched in denominationalism or entrenched in traditional churches, the main response I’m getting is “Thank God you wrote this this needed to come out.” I even had one fellow that I thought would be opposing it because it would be opposing it would be a threat to the very system he’s a part of and he sat me down privately and he said “Mike you should have gone even further things are even worse than you realize and needs change even more than you said.” What’s most gratifying is that somehow I don’t know exactly why it’s happening right now but everywhere you go you find people that have dropped out of church as we’re used to it. They love the Lord they’re not just flakes and rebels and mavericks and independent un-submitted people. You know I’m talking about people that love the Lord that are godly that care about the Kingdom of God that want to see souls reached that want to be part of something but suddenly it’s like the veil lifted and then thinking “What are we doing, what is going on?”
Sid: You know in my part of country it’s as generalization but I can literally say there are more good Christians that have dropped out the church system that are in the church system. I mean because they’re so passionate for the things of God they’ve kind of gone on the church has stayed in their particular framework and it’s not a good thing. As a matter of fact many of these people feel well maybe I’m in left field maybe I’m out of God’s will and I believe your book is going to bring them a lot of peace.
Michael: Yeah and that’s what we’ve seen consistently that the emails coming in and people contacting us and saying “Thank God you’ve put this in writing I’m not crazy I see in scripturally, I see what God’s doing in history, I see the urgent need of this.” And not only so by laying these things out and giving people a plan of attack, in other words it’s not just get this grunted and get a bad attitude.
Sid: You’re not advocating that people leave there churches.
Michael: I’m advocating…well I’m advocating that people get Biblical. First thing is that we understand what scripture says. Second thing that that we get a right heart that we get rid of any rebellion and self-filled independence, and thirdly that we either throw ourselves in somewhere that’s going after God or find a place that’s going after God be it a house church, be it a church that meets in a gorgeous building somewhere that the setting is not the issue as much as getting connected with other believers that are going after God and leaders that are going after God and throwing ourselves in a revolutionary world changing radical way which is the only way of the New Testament. Churchianity, going to a service once or twice a week, being part of a Christian social club, joining the ministerial labor union none of these things are New Testament concepts.
Sid: Now you waited till Chapter 10 to hit what I believe is the really the beginning of what is infiltrated us to such a point that we call Christianity is so watered down that I don’t think that Jesus or Peter or Paul or any of the Apostles would even recognize what it’s evolved to. This Chapter 10 is an interesting title it says “Have you read the Epistle of Jacob lately.” Explain.
Michael: As we begin to go back to scripture and show how a lot of our contemporary thinking is churchianity and has nothing to do with scripture at all. Not all tradition is wrong but any tradition that’s stifles on the gates or gets in the word of God is wrong. So we go through that and a lot of the books show how our traditions have gotten in the way of scripture and following Jesus. And then I think a way that’ll surprise a lot of a lot of readers we begin to go back to the Jewish roots the Biblical Jewish roots.
Sid: Now there are a lot of people that go into that and it seems as though almost the end result is Jewish rather than Jesus.
Michael: Right well that’s because Jewish is the fixation rather than Jesus being the central point that’s because there’s a confusion between latter rabbinic Jewish traditions and the New Testaments Jewish roots. The Jewish faith of the New Testament is a radical transformation of what was know because the Kingdom broke in and we entered the New Covenant and we’re not going through the old rites and the old tradition anymore. But on the flip side, yeah there are those that have gotten Jewish fixation got their eyes off of Jesus. Or thought if I could find some Jewish blood somewhere in my family then I’ll be closer to God.
Sid: Or I’m part of the lost tribes which is real mishegoss which means craziness.
Michael: Totally out there just incorrect that view that believers today are part of the 10 lost tribes forget its unscriptural and ought to be rejected. But on the flip side others think in order to be truly spiritual now you have to realize that the church replaced Israel, the church replaced the Jewish people and God is finished with Israel. And now this only spiritual thing is God dealing with Israel is no longer spiritual. And a lot of the problems we have in the church came about through rejection of Jewish roots and Jewish dead traditions got replaced by Gentiles dead traditions instead of going back to the Biblical faith. And for example you talk to someone from Germany and ask them “What’s the name of James in your Bible?” Or talk to someone from Korea or talk from someone from Poland around the world with rare exception they’ll tell you that the book is entitled Jacob.
Sid: So why did it became James that’s not even connected with it.
Michael: No it just…
Sid: Where did James come from?
Michael: It’s the corruption…it’s before the King James and the exact origin of it scholars have told me this and that and debated it and discussed it. The fact is that the Greek says Yacov. And it’s the Epistle of Jacob written to Jewish believers around the world. And Jude for example is not some Catholic Saint that you pray to Jude is actually Judah.
Sid: You know that changes the whole feel of the New Covenant just those changes.
Michael: Yeah let’s think of this if I talked about Albert Einstein it associates certain things in your mind you think Jewish you think Jewish, you think Physicist, you think genius, etcetera. If I say Mao Tse-tung you think Chinese, communist, dictator, mass murderer. If I say Mao Einstein or Albert Tse-tung it actually sounds funny. Fidel Einstein or Albert Castro the name sounds funny because you’re mixing 2 things. Well if I say Abraham, Isaac and James.
Sid: (Laughing).
Michael: Or if I say “Jesus Christ the son of Mary” verses Yeshua the Messiah the son of Miriam. Just these little things one sounds Christian the other sounds Jewish we have this dichotomy of the separation. And as minor as it seems there are Jewish Biblical themes like a Kingdom of God.
Sid: Let’s take that because I hear things like tallits and yarmulkes and they’re missing the whole issue. The real issue is exactly what you’re saying right now and that’s why I wanted to stop for a second and make sure people don’t tune you out because that’s the problem. I believe that one of the biggest problems with Christianity today they have misunderstood the Kingdom of God.
Michael: If you go through the preaching of John the immerse, also known as John the Baptist. If you go through his preaching and then go through immediately after that Matthew 3 and Matthew 4 the preaching of Jesus Yeshua you find them announcing the Kingdom of God and Jesus sends out His disciples to announce to the people “the Kingdom of God is at hand.”
Sid: Got to be important if John and Jesus are saying the same thing!
Michael: The Kingdom is breaking in and then you get into the Book of Acts and you find right up through Acts 28 that the preaching of the Kingdom is a major thing. What’s this about? You see this is a revolutionary truth that church has missed and I’ll make it very simple but when people understand it its life changing. Read the words of Jesus we, we want to be Biblical, we want to follow the world we reject the binding traditions of the Rabbis, we reject the binding traditions of the other churches etcetera. We go back to the word, read the words of Jesus does He talk about Christmas, singing Christmas trees, Easter, Easter eggs, building cathedrals, pews, choir robes, denomination’s hymn books, not all of these things are wrong but He doesn’t talk about any of them. What are you talking about?” He talks about the Kingdom of God and He teaches us to pray…
Sid: Why didn’t He talk about Christmas and Easter?
Michael: Well they didn’t exist number 1.
Sid: Obviously (Laughing.)
Michael: They were a…He was not coming to set up a new religion. God did not send His son into the world in the form of a Jewish Rabbi to establish a new religion called “Christianity.” Read what Jesus talked about, He talked about…
Sid: Now was Jesus called a Christian in His lifetime?
Michael: The word Christian occurs 3 times in the New Testament only beginning in Acts 11, Acts 11, Acts 26 and lst Peter 4 it was apparently a derogatory term by which the first followers of Yeshua were nicknamed by those that didn’t believe all of the Messiah ones, these Messianics, these Christ ones.
Sid: So you believe that Christianity really is not something new but the purpose of Judaism. So maybe it shouldn’t have been called Christianity maybe it should have been called “True Judaism?”
Michael: Or better than that because Judaism itself became something tied up with traditions of man etcetera and became mainly non- Jesus believing as it developed. What if we talked about the faith of the Kingdom of God? What if we talk about the Messianic movement breaking out on the earth and Jesus teaches us to pray these radical revolutionary prayers “Your Kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” That’s the overthrowing of the old order with the new order of God. And He enlists us…
Sid: That sounds too radical listen now in seeker sensitive churches you can’t say things like that!
Michael: Well, that’s one of the problems with good motivation in any seeker sensitive…
Sid: And many of them are exploding how can you say things wrong with souls coming to the Lord? I mean I see more souls coming to the Lord in seeker sensitive than in the regular type churches. But by the same token the message is not that radical.
Michael: Well here’s the problem, a lot of the seeker sensitive leaders are very are able to see lost people reached and love Jesus and love souls and have found that there’s a method that works. My question is, are you building castles in the sand? In other words what happens when the parable of the soul one little testing comes in, when persecution comes? What happens when there’s a challenge of holiness? What happens when the fire begins to purge? Are these structures going to last? Are the believers truly deeply rooted, have they taken up their cross and denied themselves and pledged themselves to follow Jesus by life or by death. See when we…
Sid: Ah hold that thought Mishpochah come on back tomorrow continue in depth on this subject in his newest book “Revolution in the Church.”
