Sid: There’s a whole breed of people that are red hot for the Messiah. In fact I have a copy of George Barna’s new book called “Revolutionary.” It’s a hardback book and he estimates that right now there are some 20 million revolutionaries. George for perhaps for those that are tuning in for the first time would you take a few minutes and explain what is a revolutionary? What’s the revolution?
George: Well, revolutionaries are individuals who have come to a point in their life where they’ve recognized that it’s not just about going with the flow, it really is all about figuring how to completely make their life a testimony to God. To become a full on sold out servant to God. And so what their trying to do is to determine how they can get more of God in their life; how they can be deeper in that relationship with Him and how He can be their highest priority in everything they do. And what you wind up therefore is people radically changing their lives. The way that they think, the way that they behave the relationships they have and how they use their resources. Everything gets reshaped when they recognize that their life is to be about bearing fruit for the Kingdom of God. It’s not about themselves, it’s all about Him and His purposes and how and why He placed us on this earth in that relationship.
Sid: And I love it in your book where based on your studies your research you predict what Christianity will really be like in the next 20 years. One of the things you talk about, and you label it “Spiritual mini-movement.” What is that?
George: Well, as we were interviewing revolutionaries one of the things that we found out had to do with transformation in people’s lives. And that’s more often than not these days that transformation is not happening through the programs of the local church; it’s not happening within the auspices of the local church it’s happening somehow in relationship to some other group that this individual is part of. Kind of an infinity group where they share common interest but also common desire to be closer to God. And so whether this is house church, or a twelve step group, or a marketplace ministry, or a world view group or a book study group, an athletic team whatever it may be they come together initially because they’re all believers of Christ. But then the thing that propels them forward is that they really are dead set on being 1st century types of Christians. People that are willing to be persecuted, people that are willing to sell out completely for the good of the gospel and that’s where you find then that they take on this new self-image and…
Sid: You know this almost what you’re describing now comes very close to my understanding of what the first church was like when they met in the homes, and they had the intimacy as opposed to looking at the back of someone’s head.
George: Well, I think that’s not by mistake as we interviewed thousands and thousands of revolutionaries around the country, what we find is that there is a tremendous movement back to the book of Acts trying to understand what was the original church? What was it like? How did it operate? What were the people doing? Because their sense is that we’ve lost so much of that over the course of time. When you look at most of our churches, I can say this based on the research that we conduct with congregations all throughout the country all different denominations and sizes and regions; what we know is that it is the rare church in America where there is true widespread passion for being Christ like. And so the fact that we got these 20 million plus people around the country who are saying “You know what I cannot settle for second best, simply getting the attendance pin at the church, simply being a volunteer in a program. That’s not what Jesus taught.”
Sid: So how do we get back to this? We all know we need this, how do we get back it?
George: Well, you know Sid actually a lot of people don’t realize it, what I’m finding is that we’re taking an awful lot of criticism for this book where we’re describing these people who are saying I’m not going to settle any more I have to be Christ like first and foremost.
Sid: You know that there’s a whole segment of society that says “I’m at my comfort level don’t rock the boat.”
George: Oh absolutely, and so you know you ask “So what do we do?” Well, I think first of all that there’s a process we’ve got to go through as an individual between us and God and saying “God would you empty my life of the stuff that’s meaningless and boy there’s a lot of it when you think it would take a tough look.” And then they’ll go back and try to figure out “Alright so what made the early believers so incredible?” And I think it goes back to this thing we talk about these 7 passions in the believers you know we’re looking at worship, and sharing our faith, and really studying what our faith is about and stewarding all the resources God has given to us and serving other people. Having our family the center of our faith activity, being held accountable by people we love and trust. All of that is so critical but it means we’ve got to reprioritize everything in our life; our time reschedule need to change, our relational networks need to change, our spending patterns will have to change and more gets thrown into question when we say “Wait a moment I taught priority is being the person that God made me to be.”
Sid: George you talk about going back to the book of Acts; when I go back to the book of Acts I see the miracles. Where does this fit in with the trend you see?
George: It’s actually critically important Sid because what we know is that so many revolutionaries are rethinking their entire spiritual life because when they read the book of Acts they say “But wait a minute every place the disciples went you know the followers in Christ the power of God was doing an incredible stuff whether it was signs or miracles or wonders or just orchestrating incredible relationships and opportunities. And they’re saying “You know what we need to have that back today.” Which also partly means having a renewed understanding of the role of Holy Spirit in our lives. When you look at the American church we really kind of given short trips to the Holy Spirit. Frankly much of what I’m describing as a spiritual revolution in America is normal spirituality in many other countries of the world where they’ve understood the power of God. Where they’ve invited the Holy Spirit to guide them and to release them to do incredible things to support them through times of persecution, we don’t have that same mentality, and that’s partly what makes this such a revolution.
Sid: Okay what happens, and you say that today there’s something like 20 million revolutionaries and it’s going to nothing but increase; what happens when a revolutionary who thinks “Maybe there’s something wrong with me” gets a hold of your book “Revolution?”
George: Well, one of the first things that I hear from so many of these people is “Thank you for writing this because I thought I was the deficient in my Christianity, I was afraid to talk to other people I became more and more isolated because I felt so different and so alone, and now you’ve given me the courage…and it’s not me I mean it’s the Holy Spirit working through this whole process, but this information has really encouraged them to come out now and to be deeply connected with other people. Many revolutionaries of course a true revolutionary is connected with other people because you never minister effectively when you’re completely isolated. Christianity is to be a communal experience. So that’s one of the first things that happens and the second thing is really be challenged to think perhaps more comprehensively and maybe even strategically about the balancing of these 7 passions of the revolutionary that we found tend to be common. Making sure that there always involved in these 7 dimensions in a way that we shape them to be more Christ like.
Sid: George with a such controversial book giving the title is controversial “Revolution.” What are the critics saying about it?”
George: Well, there are several things that keep cropping up one is the idea that revolutionaries are so selfish and individualized that they become isolated. One of the things that we discovered of course is that true revolutionaries understand that they cannot be the church if they are isolated, so they want to be connected, they want to be part of the community of faith and they actively work toward that. Another criticism we get often is that the problem for revolutionaries is that if they don’t go to a local church they can’t worship God. I think probably more than anything what that reflects is the errant understanding of worship that actually is provided in many churches which is that worship is only that time when you come together and we’ve got musicians on the stage and we’ve got somebody preaching at you. Those are good things and that could be one aspect of worship; worship is a lot bigger and a lot more significant than simply being part of that kind of group worship experience. We find that some people are saying “Well you know this is not good because what you’re doing is giving up on something that God ordained the local church.” And reality is if you look through scripture you don’t find the local church as we practice it today. In fact, it wasn’t until the fourth century that that institution was developed the way that we have it today. We made that up and then we made it sacrosanct and so we ought not to have any hesitation to say “You know what a manmade institution is not something that’s holy what we really need to do is to be the church in a way that Christ called us to and in a way that they practiced it in the first century. And you know maybe one other thought has to do with commitment. Many people say “Well you know this is going to lead to the watering down of Christianity and you know the fact that believers are no longer going to be deeply involved in ministry. Frankly, what we find is that revolutionaries have a higher likelihood of having a Biblical worldview; they have higher likelihood of serving other people. There really is no evidence to suggest that the revolution is going to diminish people’s commitment if anything because of what it requires of you it seems to enhance a person’s devotion to their faith in God.
