Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah and that’s an understatement for my guest. His name if Perry Stone; you’ve probably seen him on his television show or perhaps heard him as a guest on our television show or radio program. He’s the President and Founder of Voice of Evangelism. And I’m so intrigued Perry with your latest book; the title is “Unlocking Secrets in the Second Coming Scrolls.” Subtitled “Searching For the time of Messiah’s Return.” before we went on the air and many times I think our conversations sometimes I wish we had tape going before we go on the air. Because with you that’s not true, because you’re interesting on the air as well as off the air. But sometimes people are less inhibiting when there isn’t a tape going and I wish I could get them to say the same things on the air. But anyway I asked you a very strong question. I said “I’ve interviewed some of the leading authorities in the world literally on the timing of rapture.” And as we know literally wars have been fought over this issue; Christian’s are divided in their homes over this issue. It shouldn’t be because the bottom line for a true Christian is love; not theology.
Perry: Right.
Sid: However it is so intriguing; it is so important to understand the times and seasons that we’re living in. But I have asked many Christian’s “What is your position on the rapture, pre-trib; post-trib, mid-trib and all the others in-between. And how sure are you of this? You know to me when I studied in the scriptures I see pretty convincing arguments for all of the various positions. But I asked you that question before we went on the air and you said “There is a swing vote for you and it has to do with the Jewish roots of understanding.” Explain that.
Perry: Okay, I’m going to try to take them through a quick journey here to help them understand this. The coming of the Messiah was already made known to the Hebrew people at the time of Christ ascension to heaven. The book of Daniel, the book of Ezekiel all of them had talked about the Kingdom of God that would come; the Messiah that would come. He would rule, the King would rule; the book of Zachariah calls the Lord the King. So the fact that there would be a Messiah ruling was not new. Now when the disciples said to Jesus “Would you restore the Kingdom at this time?” He said “It’s not for you to know the times or the seasons.” And He goes up to heaven and they’re standing there gazing because they think He just going to go up and turn around and come back and set up the Kingdom. Which He did not do; He told them to go and be indued with power. So the church is born; now the church in the very first century. I’m sorry in Acts 2 is a total Jewish congregation. However God’s plan was the Gentiles would be grafted in. Now the Lord hid in a mystery and Paul keeps talking about in his epistles the mystery hid in God from the foundation of the world. God hid in a mystery the Gentiles being grated into the covenant through the Messiah and He hid what we would call the catching away of the believer or the catching away of the church; known as English theological word rapture. So here’s what happens Acts 2 the church is born all Jewish in their faith; but then God has this plan for the Gentile. So what does He do; in Acts 10 Peter preaches to the Gentiles and they get grafted into the covenant through their salvation and baptism in the Holy Spirit. While that is going on; it’s very important that the people hear this. While that is going on there is a man names Saul of Tarsus who had just be converted on the road to Damascus. Who in his own testimony leaves the book of Galatians and goes into a desert to seek God for a long period of time. Now the desert he goes to is in Arabia. He says I confer with no man but I went into Arabia and that’s where he received what’s called the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ. In Galatians 4 he tells you Mt. Sinai is in Arabia. Now what happened on Mt. Sinai in Exodus 19 is that is the mountain where Moses went when he received the law of God and it says there in Exodus 19 there was a sound of a trumpet waxing louder and louder. That would be Takea law do law. The loudest trumpet; he goes up and it says Moses went up and the Lord came down. Now when the Lord returns Paul said there shall be a sound of trumpet and the Lord shall descend and we will be caught up. It’s the same picture of Exodus 19. So Paul goes to Mount Sinai in Arabia and receives the revelation of the church, the revelation of the churches relationship to Israel; the revelation of the rapture; the revelation of the resurrection 1st Corinthians. So when Paul comes off of that mountain writes his very first of his 13 epistles. Guess which one is first? 1st Thessalonians; and guess what he says there? Every chapter mentions the coming of the Lord and chapter 4 specifically says “The Lord would ascend from heaven with a shout; the voice of the Arc angel, the dead in Christ shall rise first; we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” So my point is that the teaching of the rapture itself was hid until the church was born and secondly until the Gentles were grafted in. Because the revelation of the 2nd coming of Christ or the Messiah is for the Jew but the revelation of the rapture is for the church. And that’s the first foundational point that people have to understand when you deal with this teaching of the rapture. It is for the New Testament Church, the believer’s “The dead in Christ will rise first” as the scripture says.
Sid: Of course many Jewish people are part of that one new man the church.
Perry: Absolutely.
Sid: But you’re talking the church your talking about those that don’t believe in Jesus is…explain that. The Jewish people that do not believe in Jesus that’s for the return of the Messiah? Explain what you mean.
Perry: Okay, let’s just say if the Lord would come let’s just say tomorrow here’s what would happen; there would be Jewish remnant because Paul says there’s a remnant that believe according to the election of grace. And then there’s a large Gentile remnant of believers born again who believe in Yeshua as their Messiah; they are born again; they would be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
Sid: Alright, the two of us represent that group.
Perry: That’s right and so all those that have died in Christ at that point would be resurrected. That leaves 2 groups; that leaves unbelieving or either backslid Gentiles on the earth. And that leave what we would call the unbelieving remnant of Jewish people that may be in America or maybe living in Israel. And so what God does according to Roman’s 11 and according to the book of Revelation is that God begins then to focus his judgment on the Gentile nations and His act of working out the salvation of Israel. So the tribulation period is for the purpose of the Gentile nations who have rejected Messiah being judged but the Hebrew people of coming into that covenant relationship that has been broken through unbelief. So in other words when you read the book or Revelation you see this 144,000 Jewish men, you see the 2 witnesses; you see that one of them is Elijah. Malachi chapter 4 talks about that who come to preach to these men. There’s a remnant that’s sealed with the seal of God and you see God the Father focusing His attention back to His people Israel so that they will come to salvation through Yeshua. Now Paul said “All Israel shall be saved.” And this is the revelation that God gave him in Roman’s chapter 11. But God has dealt with Gentile nations by in large to preach the gospel around the world but in the very end of days He’s going to focus His attention. Now I’m going to say something here that probably…it may sound controversial but as people research it they’ll understand what I’m saying.
Sid: You haven’t said anything yet that’s not controversial but go ahead. (Laughing)
Perry: (Laughing) Nothing new here right, no. But in what we call the Old Testament we have the Old Testament and the New Testament. But under the New Testament, God was married to Israel but in the New covenant we see Christ married to the church. So I like to put it this way; and this is going to sound very different. But Christ will come for His bride and bring His bride to the marriage supper and then God will deal with His bride who is Israel to bring them into that full relationship with Him. And so that’s why I believe the church is caught up and caught out and then God focus’s His attention back to Israel. And of course Roman’s chapter 11 the story of the olive tree deals with that quite extensively. But having said all of that let me just add this real quick that having studied the catching away, the gathering together of what we call the rapture from a Hebraic perspective, the aspect of the Jewish wedding, the aspects of the 4 Passover cups, the aspects of everything that I can find I have a tendency of leaning very heavy on what we call the pre-tribulation catching catching of the church of the believer. And I have studies with an open mind all of the other views. But I find out that when you start looking at the other view arguments that there too many holes in it that doesn’t really piece together. So that’s kind of where we’ve…that was a long answer.
Sid: But let’s go back because we could lack forever on that subject. Let’s go back to your book and one of the things that I’ve previously seen but very few believer’s have seen. That when you take the generations of Adam and find out what the Hebrew means in their name it makes a sentence; it’s the most amazing sentence. Explain that.
Perry: Okay, if you take the general meaning of each of the Hebrew words like Adam, Adam is simply the name for man. And you got Seth, you got Adam begot Seth, Seth begot Enoch, Enoch begot Cain, Canaan begot Melcololim. Melcololim begot Jared, Jared begot Enoch, Enoch begot Methuselah, begot Lamic, Lamic, begot Noah. For example Noah in Hebrew is rest. Lamic can mean discouragement or despairing. Ivan means man, Seth means substitute or appointed. So taking everyone of those 10 names you can form actually a sentence that goes something like this. “Man is appointed mortal sorrow, but bless God shall come down teaching. His death brings despairing rest. Because Noah is rest, Lamic is despairing, Methuselah means his death brings or his death initiates; his death brings the despairing rest. So what happens is in the first 10 generations of the Bible where these major clues are concerning the return of the Lord and the promises that God gave to His people for His coming you have the actual story of the gospel of how the Lord is going to come down to bring rest to people who are despairing and who are in need. And I think that’s one of the interesting things about how all of the Hebrew names in the Bible have a special meaning to them.
Sid: Let me read that again because that is so powerful. Man is appointed mortal sorrow but blessed God He shall come down teaching and His death brings the despairing rest. I mean that’s the whole gospel! I mean right there.
Perry: Whole gospel.
Sid: But there’s so much incoded and that’s what Daniel was talking about, that’s why you wrote this book.
