Sid: I’m speaking to Dr. Carl Baugh he’s the founder and director of Creation Evidence Museum in Glen Rose, Texas. He is quite an expert in… discoverer if you will of excavations of major dinosaurs. But before we get to the dinosaurs Carl I remember as a child, and I assume it’s still being done, but I remember as a child we would go to chemistry class or something like that and we’d see a list it was sort of like a chart of the geological columns for the history of the earth and the different ages. Do they still use these things today?
Carl: They certainly do. Sid it’s a pleasure to be on the broadcast with you. This is taught from elementary school… now I’ve seen renditions of the geologic column in elementary school, secondary school, university classroom and post graduate study. It is actually the bible of evolutionary development and it shows…
Sid: What are the roots of this particular chart?
Carl: It goes back to Lyle who was the mentor of Charles Darwin who taught that living systems had progressed over long geologic ages. Charles Darwin just supplied a mechanism that appeared to be plausible to show that one system could develop into another. On page 88 of the book that we have been discussing I have that listed as an oval, and that is the most academic way to list it because according to evolutionary theory all of this grand scheme of the universe is going to collapse back upon itself ultimately. What began as a big bang will end as a big crunch. If that doesn’t occur, according to evolutionary envisioning, then the stars and galaxies are going to spread further and further apart until the light source, the heat source, the energy source will be non-existent and it will die in the big freeze. Or if neither of those happen and they just remain in place we have what’s called the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics called entropy, which means that everything is running down and its useable heat and thermal energy so that ultimately it will just fizzle. So according to this chart presented in its most academic display, which we’ve done on page 88, all of this grand scheme that Lyle and Charles Darwin envisioned will end up in a big crunch, or a big freeze, or a big fizzle. Meaning ultimately nobody is going nowhere there is no hope written into the evolutionary scheme of things. That brings me to state that I’m so pleased with the position that you take on creation and on the Biblical record, and on our redeemer Jesus Christ because both the Hebrew Scriptures in Genesis 1, Exodus chapter 20, and the New Testament scriptures in Acts 17 all begin with the statement of creation. This geologic column we’re talking about is not representation of living systems that progressed over hundreds of millions of years of evolutionary time, but when we actually examine the geologic column and the fossil record, that I worked in. We find all of these systems existed simultaneously. Sid on page 108, and I wish every one of your listeners had one of these books because it’s an investment, would be an investment in their lives. Page 108 we have a photograph of a stone a burial stone that we have at the museum, we have it in a safety deposit. When our new museum is complete with full security we’ll have this stone and these stones on display. In Peru the Incas, the Mashcos, and the Tiahuanacos, those were Indian tribes. As late as the 6th century AD practice burying stones with their nobles and those stones represented the exploits and the life of that individual. Some of these stones which we have by special arrangement from museum and through the authorities from Peru; some of these stones like the one shown on page 108 display a dinosaur, a dinosaur that is species specific a triceratops. A dinosaur being ridden and being simultaneously fed by a man.
Sid: But wait a second, they were different ages.
Carl: Oh according to evolutionary context that triceratops lived about a 140 million years ago and man even in primitive form according to evolutionary theory didn’t appear until 3½ million years ago, yet here we have them living simultaneously. Now those long millions and hundreds of millions of years are non-existent. In this chapter, I wish every one of your listeners had a copy of this chapter alone, in this chapter on the geologic column I show the human footprints that we have right in the middle of dinosaur footprints. On page 104…
Sid: I’m looking at that right now…
Carl: Alright…
Sid: What did you feel like when you found that?
Carl: Oh I didn’t sleep for 4 days…
Sid: (Laughing)
Carl: …because it shattered everything that I had been taught, and everything I had been teaching. Now at the bottom of this page is a scholar who appeared with me on the NBC program “The Mysterious Origins of Man,” Dr. Dale Peterson, MD. On that page is a fossilized human finger, we had it CAT scanned and it shows not only the fingernail, the cuticle, the taper, the entire bone structure with all 3 of the joints, but it shows the cartilage and its ligaments, it shows the epidermis, the skin everything, even the hospital that did the spiral CAT scan to determine, and labeled it a “Fossilized human finger.” It is so specific that the head of a university science department stated “That it’s the 4th finger on the left hand of a girl.” Where was it found? It was found in the very same layer with dinosaur bones and dinosaur footprints. Then on page 105…
Sid: How… with this type of documentation, this type of evidence how could any reasonable man or woman believe in the theory of evolution?
Carl: They can’t if they will examine the evidence. Most people recognize that if they adopt creation there must be a Creator. Therefore, they must give an account and be willing as rule to change lifestyles.
Sid: There’s a question that’s come to mind. We arrange debates between Jewish believers in Jesus and traditional Jews as to who is Jesus.
Carl: Yes.
Sid: And the evidence is so overwhelming that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah that the rabbis have stopped debating us. They won’t do it because it causes the Jewish community to think for themselves.
Carl: Exactly.
Sid: I’m sure you’ve had debates…
Carl: Oh yeah.
Sid: …with scientists that believe in the law of evolution. What happens at these debates?
Carl: Well the very same thing because it muddies the waters and means that they must question what they were taught at the university and what they have taught others. All you have to do to adopt creation and disavow relationship with evolution is to die Sid, literally. Academically the person commits suicide because then he’s not considered as intellectual as he had appeared to before, and I must explain that. Intellectualism in truth is embracing truth and following it to its consistent end, but we have a bizarre interpretation today. In order to hold to evolution the academician must be able to, in his own mind, support a theory that has no basis in fact. He must actually invent the data and slant the information, ignore some of the laboratory results and slant the results that he finds to get an evolutionary interpretation. So what happens when this is brought out? The person must admit that he has self-deluded which is very difficult to do. That means committing academic suicide, or he must admit no longer he holds to this supposition that he has formulated in his mind and that he goes back to direct concrete evidence which appears to be simplistic. So therefore he’s considered to be less intellectual than at first he appeared to be. So it’s a commitment of suicide. On page 105 I think your listeners should know we have not only the footprints, and I show one the human footprints with all 5 toes right in the middle of a dinosaur track. The paleontologist Dr. Floyd Jones examining that track and I have the photo right there, that paleontologist said “There’s no question that is a human footprint.” But at the top of that page, and I hope you’re looking at it just now…
Sid: I am.
Carl: …is a human handprint. We have this spiral CAT scanned and it shows the depression under the base of the palm, the thrust down and forward. A person apparently fell in the mud and splayed their hand. The thumbnail is registered, all 5 of the digits, and the central digit pushed in to the mud that later hardened to this limestone, and even the fingernail recorded. Sid what amazed me when our technician did a latex mold of this and pulled the latex mold out the fingernail was on that finger and it was clipped. The thumbnail was clipped…
Sid: How could that be?
Carl: Okay…
Sid: They didn’t have scissors or nail clippers…
Carl: (Laughing) Well…
Sid: …and when there were dinosaurs.
Carl: When dinosaurs were around, and we’re talking about these fossils being deposited as living systems in a global flood, the flood of Noah’s day. Those people before the flood were more intelligent than we, there are reasons for that. How much time do we have on the broadcast?
Sid: We’re going to have to pick up on tomorrow’s broadcast, but how long ago were dinosaurs and men walking together on this earth.
Carl: Okay what we find in the fossil record with man and dinosaur living contemporaneously occurred less than 5000 years ago in the worldwide flood. That’s not all, I’ve led 3 scientific expeditions into the jungles of Papua, New Guinea in search of living pterodactyls, the cousins to the dinosaurs. We have over 2 dozen eyewitness accounts, we’ve made 5 sightings after dark and found 2 of their footprints the next morning, that pterodactyls are still alive. Plus in the Congo in Africa there are reports of Mokele-mbembe, excellent reports and that would be a sauropod dinosaur still alive, there are remnants alive…
Sid: Dr. Baugh we’re out of time we’ll pick up here.
